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Suggestion: Change List into Table(s)

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This whole article would be a lot easier to read were it changed into a table, or series of tables. As it stands, it is very hard to compare figures between groups. Tables can be sorted automatically.

1.126.107.59 (talk) 16:23, 11 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

U might be right 2001:4958:2616:4A01:7ABA:5743:C071:C92 (talk) 18:00, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Eastern Orthodoxy and Ukraine

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The Orthodox Church of Ukraine belongs under the category "Non-universally recognized churches" because it is not accepted by most Orthodox churches. It is completely inappropriate to categorize the OCU as if it were a universally accepted Orthodox Church, when most of those churches do not accept it. Also, I suspect the claim that the OCU has 25 million members is inflated. No source is cited for that figure, and it's more than half of Ukraine's population. Nepsis2 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Based on my faint familiarity with the Ukraine situation, I am inclined to agree with this. Only Constantinople and the Greek side are recognizing it right now. And, there may come a day when we need to delineate autocephalous Churches that are aligned with Constantinople, and those that are aligned with Moscow. They are beginning to come apart and draw a line down the middle. Elizium23 (talk) 02:04, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Based on 43.9% of (which?) population cited in the UOC article, and using 42,000,000 population altogether I come up with 18.44 million UOC members, or using 43.9% of only the Orthodox population, that would be 12 million members. Yes, the figure is inflated anyway you slice it. Elizium23 (talk) 02:17, 8 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
User:Nepsis2 is right on the Ukrainian Orthodox Church. --Checco (talk) 17:11, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure why you reverted my changes (1) MOS:HEADING says that links are not to be used in headings. I took them out for good reason. (2) This list is "by number of members" and so Protestantism goes below Eastern Orthodoxy, which is the second-largest church in the world. It should also probably be below Oriental Orthodoxy, a communion as large as Anglicanism. Elizium23 (talk) 20:29, 9 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(1) In this case, links are quite useful, indeed.
(2) Protestantism has more members than any other family, except Catholicism. --Checco (talk) 16:35, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
(1) we don't do that, no matter how you personally feel about their utility. (2) A "family" is not a denomination or a church. The Eastern Orthodox is the second-largest Church. Elizium23 (talk) 18:11, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Most importantly, when you want to change a long-established version of an article, you seek consensus first. Per Wikipedia:Consensus, "in discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit". (1) Links are necessary in this case. I would have no problem in removing sections and replacing them with bullet points, anyway. (2) This is an article on denominations, not churches per se, and it has always been ordered by branch/family from largest to smallest. --Checco (talk) 17:06, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, this is an article on denominations, and Protestantism is not a denomination. The ordering needs to change to conform with the stated topic of the article. If you want to change the topic, that is another discussion. Elizium23 (talk) 17:08, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You are very confused and you do not understand how consensus work.
I have just received the following funny message from you in my talk page:
Information icon Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. You appear to be repeatedly reverting or undoing other editors' contributions at List of Christian denominations by number of members. Although this may seem necessary to protect your preferred version of a page, on Wikipedia this is known as "edit warring" and is usually seen as obstructing the normal editing process, as it often creates animosity between editors. Instead of reverting, please discuss the situation with the editor(s) involved and try to reach a consensus on the talk page.
If editors continue to revert to their preferred version they are likely to lose their editing privileges. This isn't done to punish an editor, but to prevent the disruption caused by edit warring. In particular, editors should be aware of the three-revert rule, which says that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Edit warring on Wikipedia is not acceptable in any amount, and violating the three-revert rule is very likely to result in loss of your editing privileges. Thank you. Elizium23 (talk) 17:10, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have been an editor of Wikipedia for virtually 15 years and I have edited this article for at least eight years. "Welcome" is quite inappropriate. Please not that you boldly edited the article and those edits were not upopposed. Thus, if you continue to upload your preferred version, it is you who is actually edit warring. I came to terms with User:Nepsis2. There is no reason why there should not be a compromise also between you and me. Please leave the established version and let's discuss. Surely Protestantism is not a denomination, it is a branch of Christianity. This article is ordere first by branch, then denomination/church, and so on. --Checco (talk) 17:22, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to address this topic again with regard to the "semi-recognition" of the Orthodox Church in America versus the Orthodox Church of Ukraine. The OCA is universally recognized as Orthodox, and the discussion of whether it is autocephalous or autonomous does not call that basic legitimacy into question. The dispute over the OCU is over whether it and its members can be considered Orthodox, with autocephaly being a relative background issue in this instance. --Nepsis2 (talk) 20:17, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
By whom should the Orthodox Church of Ukraine be considered Orthodox? Also please provide a source for your claims. If just Moscow denies it as orthodox (not just it's autocephaly, but it's orthodoxy), that doesn't count as they are in open shchism with Constantinople as well and deny them the name of orthodox. Barumbarumba (talk) 17:02, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

RFC

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  • Unfortunately, this is not "List of Christian denominations by date of foundation", but "List of Christian denominations by number of members". I really do not understand how a list "by number of members" can be ordered differently. --Checco (talk) 09:08, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Unnecessary favoritism of a subsection in Eastern/Byzantine Orthodox Church

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Have been not happy with one user over the past four years, who been obsessively odd of defending this Ukrainian Orthodox Church that used to be affiliated with Russian Orthodox Church during a ongoing Christian schism, until couple years ago, when that Ukrainian Orthodox Church cut off ties with Mother Church. Due of how their holy leader favoring invading Ukraine proper, and how this effects on their Churches in unoccupied Ukrainian soil.

I have been trying to reminding this user @Nepsis2, that Wikipedia is not a version of Eastern (Byzantine) Orthodox-based biased religious blog, this user is seemly following. But clearly a secular Wikipedia website, where be providing non-biased sources from first and secondary accounts.

Now, I just wanted to make sure to be neutral, by moving another partially-recognized Orthodox Church into the right spot, as well put it's ambiguous rival at top OCA, based on how many members it has, not by holy recognition. Chad The Goatman (talk) 20:38, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I brought this up over four years ago on this very page. "The Orthodox Church of Ukraine belongs under the category 'Non-universally recognized churches' because it is not accepted by most Orthodox churches. It is completely inappropriate to categorize the OCU as if it were a universally accepted Orthodox Church, when most of those churches do not accept it. Also, I suspect the claim that the OCU has 25 million members is inflated. No source is cited for that figure, and it's more than half of Ukraine's population. Nepsis2 (talk) 01:57, 8 December 2019 (UTC)"
The OCU's lack of acceptance is not a biased statement, it is an objective fact. You misrepresent that by trying to lump the OCU in with churches that are universally recognized as Orthodox. Nepsis2 (talk) 22:43, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Way too many tiny denominations listed

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At this point a bunch of denominations here (eg Bulgarian Greek Catholic Church, Macedonian Greek Catholic Church) are listed as having 0.001 million = 1000 members. At this point that's literally one church building. We should impose a limit on how far we break these down, because as stands the "Eastern Catholic Churches" section is an entire page of my browser. As a starting point I propose we not list churches here with <1m members if they are listed somewhere else. For the "Eastern Catholic Churches" section, what that would look like is the following:

@Pbritti, what do you think? 

-Sophia (talk) 07:37, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Sophia wisdom: This is supposed to be a comprehensive list. It's ok if it's long, as there are a lot of denominations and subdivisions to be mentioned. ~ Pbritti (talk) 13:16, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the lede states, we already limit Protestant groups to those with at least 0.2 million members. It seems to me that it's not unreasonable to have a size limit for churches in other branches of Christianity. Failing that, we should not limit Protestant groups. Indyguy (talk) 16:35, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that there should be a cut-off point, yet not as high as 1M, nor as low as 0.2M. I would say, maybe 0.5M. The list would still be comprehensive enough. I would make exceptions for both East and West: families distinct enough that is worth mentioning regardless of size. i.e.:
Under Catholicism, Canonically irregular groups (Society of Saint Pius X – 1 million) would stay, but Sedevacantists would go, especially if they don't have numbers.
Under Anglicanism, the grouping "Continuing Anglican movement and independent churches – 0.7 million", would stay, but not the specific groups which are all below 0.5M.
Under special groups, regardless of number, groups such as Quakers or the Assyrian Church of the East should remain.
What do you all think? If not, then because of the previous consensus, if the cut-off point for Protestant groups is 0.2M, then it should be the same for Catholics, which would still reduce the list significantly.--Coquidragon (talk) 00:23, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Eastern Catholic churches are all listed because they are a definite number and have distinct traditions, while there is a limit on Protestant denominations because there are too many of them. I would stick with the current consensus. --Checco (talk) 05:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can someone please explain why my edit was reverted?

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(Here's a link to my edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Christian_denominations_by_number_of_members&oldid=1242709666) I added two authors' names and deleted an oddly-placed phone number and a fax number, on 28 August 2024. I don't see why my edit was viewed as vandalism. Could someone please explain? 66.215.184.32 (talk) 08:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Denominational shares as per the World Christian Database

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The mid-2024 figures according to the World Christian Database are given below.

  • Christian total 2,631,941,000

This is the 2024 figure for Christians, listed under the main heading GLOBAL RELIGION, which includes both affiliated (2,508,432,000) and unaffiliated (123,508,000) Christians.

  • Catholic total 1,278,009,000 (48.6% of Christian total)
  • Protestant total 625,606,000 (23.8% of Christian total)
  • Independent total 421,689,000 (16% of Christian total)
  • "Wider" Protestant total = Protestant total + Independent total = 625,606,000 + 421,689,000 = 1,047,295,000 (39.8% of Christian total)

All Wikipedia articles, as well as most reliable sources ultimately classify Independents/Evangelicals/Modern Protestants/Non-core Protestants/Pentecostals as Protestant. Most importantly, this Wikipedia article lists Modern Protestantism under Protestantism. The sections in this article on Protestantism and Modern Protestantism makes it very clear that Independent Christianity, Nondenominational Christianity, Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism and multiple other groups that might sometimes prefer to be called simply "Christian" instead of "Protestant" are within the scope of Protestantism. The pie charts in this article should be consistent with the information provided by the article. Hence, it is necessary to represent historic Protestants and Independents together as a single Protestant slice in the pie chart. @Checco:, @Anto5840: and other colleagues are welcome to comment.Longsword9 (talk) 07:47, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The cited sourced classifies protestants separately and theres clearly an overlap on how they define pentecostals and evangelicals based on the numbers given ( protestants + evangelicals + Pentecostals + independents add up to more than 2 billion based on the cited source). For clarity purposes I listed them as separate categories in the pie chart. There's also plenty of wikipedia articles and sources where mainline protestants are classified differently with evangelicals and independents since there's no clear consensus on the definition of "modern protestantism". Anto5840 (talk) 09:13, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with User:Longsword9. There should not be a separate slice for "Evangelicalism" as it is part of Protestantism. --Checco (talk) 13:54, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Anto5840: There is indeed an overlap between Pentecostals and Evangelicals. Hence their numbers should not be added to any other category. Quick facts about global Christianity provides the definition of Pentecostals and Evangelicals within the World Christian Database. The article Five Hundred Years of Protestant Christianity by the creators of the World Christian Database also provides useful information. The term "wider Protestant" is used in this article, which is used as a source in Wikipedia. In page 2 it says, "If Independent churches are considered as offshoots of Protestantism, then the “wider” Protestants’ share of global Christians is even higher. For example, Protestants and Independents together represent more than 40 percent of all Christians in 2017." Hence it is ok to add Protestant and Independent numbers. Additionally, in page 5 it says that there is significant overlap between Evangelicalism and the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.Longsword9 (talk) 06:03, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
According to the World Christian Encyclopedia Independent Christians are defined as Christians who do not self-identify with the other major traditions: Orthodox, Protestant or Catholic. Even the World Christian Database uses the word "IF" before putting them in the wider protestant category, So it's clear that there is no consensus among Most Christians of independents being protestants. Most Independents themselves don't consider themselves protestant and wouldn't want to be identified with protestantism. Its also important to note that not all independent churches are offshoots of protestants, so categorizing them as protestants is simply ignoring their autonomy and trivializing their movement. Even the creators of the cited source deemed it fit to place them in a separate category, so the same should reflect in Wikipedia. Anto5840 (talk) 11:02, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia does not classify Christian traditions based on self-identification. For instance, Anglicans self-identify as a via media between Catholicism and Protestantism. In spite of that Anglicanism is listed in this page as a Protestant tradition and not as a separate tradition of its own. Regardless of how they self-identify, all Wikipedia articles categorize Independents/Modern Protestants/Non-core Protestants as Protestants. Did you read the sections on Protestantism and Modern Protestantism in this article? It has already been pointed out that this article includes Independent Christianity, Nondenominational Christianity, Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism and multiple other groups that might sometimes prefer to be called simply "Christian" instead of "Protestant" within the scope of Protestantism. This should reflect in the pie chart by representing historic Protestants and Independents together as a single Protestant slice. Otherwise, the pie chart would be inconsistent with article content. Moreover, the prevailing consensus (2-1) in this discussion is not in your favour. Based on the current consensus, the long-established stable version of this article should remain, until you receive majority support from regular editors of this page.Longsword9 (talk) 05:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is false to claim that all wikipedia articles categorize independents as protestants. They are many wikipedia articles that classify them as independent. Other wikipedia articles go further and categorise protestants into mainline protestantism,evangelicalism and Pentecostalism. This is also standard practice in the Christian encyclopedia and other various surveys. And when citing a topic on wikipedia it is expected for the information presented to march the cited source to avoid misleading readers, and the source clearly classifies independents and protestants separately.The information on the chart should march the cited source that independents are classified separately. 41.90.188.105 (talk) 13:35, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ip 41.90.188.105/User:Anto5840: You are not supposed to deceptively edit from your ip address, without logging in, to create an illusion of support for your views. The consensus in this discussion is still (2-1). Ip address 41.90.188.105 geolocates to Nairobi, Kenya. Most of the Anto5840’s edits are related to Nairobi and Kenya. That itself is ample proof that the ip edit was made by Anto5840. Quit playing tricks. Be logged in with your original username before you edit. Do not violate Wikipedia policies by resorting to WP:SOCK and WP:MEAT. In other words, you should not attempt to distort genuine consensus by abusing multiple usernames or ip addresses yourself. Nor should you persuade your comrades to support your case using multiple usernames.Longsword9 (talk) 05:25, 19 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That wasn't my edit, neither I'm I from Nairobi. However I do still believe that independents should be classified as a separate group based on the cited source and prevailing definitions since even protestants themselves can't seem to agree on what groups comprise protestants. Thank you Anto5840 (talk) 08:56, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring by User:Checco against consensus

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User:Checco, despite consensus not to do so above in an RfC, has restored mention of Anglicanism to the lede of the article as distinct from Protestantism—a view that is highly controversial. User:Checco wishes to give special priority to the view of some Anglicans (chiefly Anglo-Catholics), when Anabaptists and Independent Baptists, as well as Lutherans of Evangelical Catholic churchmanship, do not embrace the label of Protestant either (see Exhibit A, Exhibit B, and Exhibit C). Though this is clear in the body of the article, User:Checco insists on mentioning Anglicanism in the lede, without mentioning Anabaptists, Independent Baptists, and Evangelical Catholic Lutheranism. Before User:Checco's edit, the article simply mentioned Protestantism in the lede and I have restored that. As the closer of the RfC, User:StAnselm pointed out, it is problematic to mention the theory of a via media in the lede, which is not embraced by all Anglicans themselves (see Exhibit D), and which means different things to different Anglicans (historically, the via media referred to a middle way between Lutheranism and Reformed Christianity).[1] It is best to have a simple lede without adding controversial information therein. I have pinged User:Orientls, User:Indyguy, User:1990'sguy, and User:Display name 99 to this conversation. Administrator User:John K, I am drawing your attention to this discussion given your involvement in the RfC; I would request that he enforce the above consensus and discourage unilateral edits by User:Checco that are controversial in nature. User:Checco, as this now has administrative attention, please stop edit warring against consensus. Thank you, AnupamTalk 17:55, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We already had an RfC over this. Just because a single user disagrees with the result does not give them the right to disregard the consensus, which was clear about not including this "via media" material in the lede and not treating Anglicanism separately from the rest of Protestantism. --1990'sguy (talk) 04:38, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Anglican and Episcopal History. Historical Society of the Episcopal Church. 2003. p. 15. Others had made similar observations, Patrick McGrath commenting that the Church of England was not a middle way between Roman Catholic and Protestant, but "between different forms of Protestantism," and William Monter describing the Church of England as "a unique style of Protestantism, a via media between the Reformed and Lutheran traditions." MacCulloch has described Cranmer as seeking a middle way between Zurich and Wittenberg but elsewhere remarks that the Church of England was "nearer Zurich and Geneva than Wittenberg.
There is quite a lot of confusion here. I am not challenging the result of any RfC, but simply restoring the established consensus of this article. The sentence "(including Anglican churches, which are sometimes described as a via media between Catholicism and Protestantism)" has been part of this article for a long time and has been removed only a couple of weeks ago. It was thus the established consensus of this article. This said, I am not particularly interested in the issue and I agree that the "via media" specification should not be included in the intro. However, the real edit against consensus is to treat "independents" separately from Protestants. See User:Longsword9's remarks above. --Checco (talk) 06:54, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have restored the mention of Anglicanism, without the controversial "via media", and added Non-denominational Christianity to the intro. As User:Longsword9 correctly pointed out, "all Wikipedia articles, as well as most reliable sources ultimately classify Independents/Evangelicals/Modern Protestants/Non-core Protestants/Pentecostals as Protestant. Most importantly, this Wikipedia article lists Modern Protestantism under Protestantism. The sections in this article on Protestantism and Modern Protestantism makes it very clear that Independent Christianity, Nondenominational Christianity, Evangelicalism, Pentecostalism and multiple other groups that might sometimes prefer to be called simply 'Christian' instead of 'Protestant' are within the scope of Protestantism".
I also fixed the pied chart: again, per User:Longsword9, "the pie charts in this article should be consistent with the information provided by the article. Hence, it is necessary to represent historic Protestants and Independents together as a single Protestant slice in the pie chart", unless a new consensus is formed, of course! --Checco (talk) 07:17, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This wikipedia article clearly states that not all scholars classify independents as protestants, even widely used references classify independents separately. The cited source also classifies independents separately, any information posted on wikipedia should match the cited source. Most independents are also fiercely independent and wouldn't want the protestant tag, and since wikipedia should be a neutral platform I think they deserve to be classified separately. Anto5840 (talk) 09:02, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Anto5840 should avoid total rollbacks like this. --Checco (talk) 08:34, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Checco should avoid changing well cited and sourced information Anto5840 (talk) 08:50, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus on your edit on the pie chart. Additionally, you rollbacked all kinds of edits by me. Please avoid total rollbacks. --Checco (talk) 09:24, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Checco, please re-read the RfC. It determined that Anglicanism would not be treated differently from the rest of Protestantism, including the lede. You cannot unilaterally add it to the lede when we specifically have consensus not to do so. Note that with your edit warring with User:Anto5840, in addition to your reverts made against consensus, you have crossed WP:3RR. Please stop. As a WP:COMPROMISE, I will accept the addition of Anglicanism in the lede only if Lutheranism is added alongside it. You are required to work with me here rather than edit warring in the article. Thank you, AnupamTalk 13:00, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not edit warring and I have not crossed 3RR. On one side I have restored established versions of the article, but I later refrained from restoring them again. On the other side I made specific edits with explanatory summaries. By the way, it is not contentious to specify that both Anglicanism and non-denominational Christianity are included in Protestantis as it is exactly like that in the list. I would accept your compromise proposal as well as any clarification that Protestantism includes both historical Protestantism, notably including Lutheranism and Anglicanism, and modern Protestantism, including Pentecostalism and non-denominational Christianity. However, that is not all-important to me. I could also accpet your latest version. What is most important to me is to restore the consensual version of the pie chart, that has been repeatedly edit regardless of consensus. --Checco (talk) 13:10, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Checco, thank you for being willing to accept the latest version of the article as it stands now (which is in line with the consensus established at the RfC). I am willing to accept your preference with respect to the pie chart as a compromise. With regards, AnupamTalk 13:15, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am always for civil debate and compromise, thus I was quite surprised by your previous comments. I am happy that we worked it out. The sentence you did not like and you deemed in contrast with the RfC on Anglicanism has been there for more than one year, thus it was the established version of the article, however I recognise that it was better to remove it. Possibly we could expand the intro a bit, but, as of now, I am OK with it. Could you please restore the previous, consensual chart? --Checco (talk) 14:01, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Checco, thanks! I'd be happy to restore the previous chart. Could you kindly provide a link to the revision that includes it? With regards, AnupamTalk 14:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here it is. That was before edit warring started. Only the chart, of course. Thanks! --Checco (talk) 14:37, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
User:Checco, I have restored the pie charts as you requested. We will consider this as the stable version of the lede. I hope this helps! With regards, AnupamTalk 14:56, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

World Christian Database pie chart

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The pie chart based on World Christian Database, which has been repeatedly edited without consensus, is quite problematic. According to the source, there are 2,5 billion "affliliated Christians", of which 1.3 billion are Catholics, 0.6 billion Protestants, 0.4 billion Independents, 0.3 billion Orthodox, 0.1 billion unaffiliated, 0.4 billion Evangelicals and 0.7 billion Pentecostals/Charismatics. There is clearly some overlapping as the various groups put together do not make 2.5 billion but 3.8 billion. I would remove the chart altogether. -- Checco (talk) 21:48, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Additionally, as User:StAnselm indirectly pointed out, percentages are original research. Let's remove it altogether. --Checco (talk) 22:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I would strongly disagree that working out the percentages would necessarily be original research, but we would need to check for overlap of categories.StAnselm (talk) 22:11, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, fine, but even adding only Catholics, Protestants, Independents and Orthodox, the total would be 2.6 billion, not 2.5... Do we take 2.6 billion as the Christian total? --Checco (talk) 07:48, 1 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I would do the percentages based on 2,618,462,000. StAnselm (talk) 02:42, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The numbers do not add up, since the document shows the number of those who identify as such; one can be Protestant, Evangelical, Pentecostal and Charismatic at the same time, and that would be one person, not four people. Again, a user named Longsword9 has been changing the numbers a few days ago according to his original interpretation, adding only in Protestantism article "Protestants and Independents", but why doesn't he add Evangelicals, Pentecostals, Charismatic, etc...? In his opinion, there would be more than 2 billion Protestants. Rafaelosornio (talk) 23:56, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I see your point. That is why I would probably remove the chart altogether. --Checco (talk) 09:24, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Community of Christ's location on the list

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I noticed that Community of Christ is in the Nontrinitarian Restorationism category. While it's an offshoot of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints which is Nontrinitarian, Community of Christ reversed this and shifted back to Trinitarianism.

I'm not sure how to clearly represent this on the list... Contagious Owl (talk) 05:31, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That's a good point! Perhaps we could create a "Trinitarian Latter Day Saints" section under the subheading of "Modern Protestantism". What are your thoughts? Kind regards, AnupamTalk 18:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That seems to be a good location for it! And perhaps a note could be added near "Latter Day Saint movement or Mormonism", so that people who don't see its new location don't re-add it to its old position, mistakenly believing it not to have been listed. Contagious Owl (talk) 03:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not convinced about creating a "Trinitarian Latter Day Saints" section under the subheading of "Modern Protestantism". I think it is better to have the Community of Christ near the LDS Church. What about a new section entirely devoted to Mormonism, due to its unique tradition? --Checco (talk) 07:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New 2024 chart does not distinguish between Eastern and Oriental Orthodox

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The new 2024 is a bit odd… it numbers “independent” as different from Protestant, but that’s debatable, I guess. However, what’s not debatable is that Eastern and Oriental Orthodox are two different churches not in communion with another. 82.77.158.104 (talk) 17:06, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Distinct theologies or polities

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When I started restructuring this list 15 years ago, I understood that it was essential to have a rule limiting the list and, especially, Protestant denominations. That is why I proposed and enacted the rule according to which Protestant denominations should have at least 0.2 million members to be added to the list. Of course, that rule did not apply to "all the other Christian branches and denominations with distinct theologies or polities" as those "distinct theologies and polities" make them unique. Minor Protestant denominations with distinct theologies and polities fall in that category. That is why it is OK to have Seventh-Day Baptists, minor Adventist churches, minor Anabaptist groups and, yes, the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Free Church of England that I added today. As a reminder, also Quakers' branches should be added. -- Checco (talk) 16:44, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't really understand the distinction you are making between "Protestant denominations" and Protestant denominations with distinct theologies and polities. The reason there are so many Protestant denominations is often due to theologies and polities (the other major reason being the country or area the denomination is located). I don't see how the theology and polity of the Reformed Episcopal Church and the Free Church of England are so distinct that they can be listed here while various other small Protestant groups cannot be. Indyguy (talk) 18:34, 29 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Precisely because they are not part of a larger denomination or communion, as the other given examples. --Checco (talk) 06:47, 30 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Independent Catholicism

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As the independent protestants and orthodox or their equivalent are grouped under the main headings, why are Independent Catholic in a separate groups? Shouldn't they be under Catholicism? There are more similiarities that differences with these groups. Coquidragon (talk) 04:45, 3 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest they should not, as it is now. The Catholic Church is different because of its structure and hierarchy, with the Pope on top. --Checco (talk) 19:48, 4 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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