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Nth prime minister

Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland has been notified of this debate and contributions are requested. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

Would the people WP:edit warring over whether Polish premierships should be numbered please resolve their differences here, as you are both violating close to violating the WP:three revert rule, which can get your editing rights suspended.

It may be helpful to note that a possible reason why no European country follows the US convention of post numbering is to avoid arguments about where you start counting. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:33, 16 April 2025 (UTC) revised to clarify that 3RR had not quite been reached. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:37, 17 April 2025 (UTC)

This is not just in here but in multiple articles, like in Hanna Suchocka, Jan Olszewski, Jarosław Kaczyński and Włodzimierz Cimoszewicz.

While i respect that he removes the orders in the articles of the prime ministers and Presidents the problem is that he also adds photos that are,
lower quality, very old, less natural-looking, too zoomed in.
it's basically the same thing if you add a photo of Donald Trump as a child, but it honestly depends on how their appearance has changed.

Also the numbers based on the order make it less weird and much better to identify the exact order of the prime ministers during this time, in my opinion.

And the countries that the ip stated were countries like : Spain, France, Italy or [[Portugal] the difference behind them is that they have been Western Countries and at the exact same time was a communist country.

while it is true that the office of prime minister existed in Communist Poland, The country was being ruled by the First Secretary Of the PZPR.
And at the same time these western countries had offices that were never abolished or were in the same type of government (democratic governments) and even today they are in the same government meaning it's unnecessary in these countries mainly because there have been too much of them.

also just because i added the orders does not mean that they are "US styled"

Anyway, that's all.

𝕸𝖆𝖑𝖇𝖔𝖗𝖐𝕳𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 14:18, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

What WP:RS evidence do you have for Polish prime-ministers being numbered (and yes, in the US style) as a widely accepted norm, despite nowhere else in Europe using that system?

• Which RS says that you should start after the fall of communism? (Soviet occupation). Why? Why not?
• What about the quisling government during the Nazi occupation? The Polish government in exile? Why? Why not?
• What about the inter-war years? Why? Why not?
• The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? (Extreme case if relevant at all, but if the same issue would arise with Prime Ministers of the United Kingom of (a) Great Britain and Northern Ireland (1922- (b) Great Britain and Ireland (1801-1921) (c) Great Britain (1707-1800) (d) England (?-1707)
• Functionally the same role but different title

None, I suspect.

So in reality it is much more difficult (and thus a WP:NOR and WP:NPOV violation) to assign numbers to Polish prime-ministers and the real fault is that numbers have been attached to Hanna Suchocka, Jan Olszewski, Jarosław Kaczyński and Włodzimierz Cimoszewicz.

(The images are a separate issue and you need to create a separate discussion topic. But let's resolve the order first.) 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 16:27, 16 April 2025 (UTC)

I have a Possible solution
How about it's better to add the Orders to every Prime Minister of Poland, in history? (but this time not depending on the term of the regime)
it will sound less confusing and the quite opposite on like i did previously on just the III Rzeczpospolita
but unlike a single regime it's probably better to add the order to every single Prime Minister of Poland after the office was introduced when Poland gained independence in 1918.

𝕸𝖆𝖑𝖇𝖔𝖗𝖐𝕳𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 19:18, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

That at least would be a defensible start point. But do you have any evidence that it is a convention actually used in Poland, or is it exclusively a Wikipedia artefact? Wikipedia follows, not leads. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 19:29, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

To be honest, idk if it is actually used in Poland
the reason im adding the orders is to avoid any issues based on confusion with the articles about the prime ministers let's say articles like Ignacy Jan Paderewski, Wincenty Witos, Józef Piłsudski, Władysław Sikorski or Włodzimierz Cimoszewicz has orders but the rest of articles like Jarosław Kaczyński, Ignacy Daszyński or Leszek Miller doesn't which in my opinion would sound really confusing.
𝕸𝖆𝖑𝖇𝖔𝖗𝖐𝕳𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 19:51, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

In that case, the obvious solution is to remove the Order= option from the five that have it, rather than add it to those that haven't. By far the most likely explanation is simply that someone just willy-nilly populated every argument in the standard infobox (which has that option because it is a big deal in the USA but no deal in Europe). Without external evidence of usage, it is a WP:NOR violation. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 20:17, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

then i guess, it's a deal.

every single article about a polish prime minister that contains the order will be reverted, starting now, and if i won't finish it i will do it probably tommorow

the only thing is that i'm not sure how it will be treated by admins mainly because of wikipedia's third-revert rule which if i violate again i could get banned from editing so yeah.

𝕸𝖆𝖑𝖇𝖔𝖗𝖐𝕳𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖔𝖗𝖎𝖆𝖓 20:26, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for accepting the logic set out by the IP editor and me. Just two further points:

1. the relevant rule I should have cited is wP:SYNTH, more so than WP:OR. But the conclusion is the same: we must not create a status that does not exist in the real world.
2. the 3RR rule says three reverts in 24 hours. I don't see how that could arise but if anyone counter-reverts, I advise that you just refer them to this discussion and put the process on hold until the question is cleared up. WP:There is no deadline.

So as and when you have time in the next few days. I'll make a start on the Presidents tomorrow. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 23:17, 19 April 2025 (UTC)